Dysfunction or Discovery: A Former Therapist's Case for Executive Coaching
Patrick Williams, Ed.D., MCC

Excerpt from The New Private Practice
Edited by Lynn Grodzki, Published by W. W. Norton & Company, January, 2002

Mike knew this was the end of the line. His company had referred him to an executive coach, and that must mean trouble. Mike's background, similar to many men's today, was 'old school' and had taught him that seeking outside help meant you were weak. Strong men didn't do that. Strong men didn't need help. Capable managers didn't need executive coaches. Yes, he concluded, he was in trouble' and at the very least, a crossroads.

Mike had heard a little about coaching. But what really was an executive coach? Wasn't that just some psychologist in coach clothing? When we began our work, Mike had what I would call mild angst. Unanswered questions filled him with dread. What was happening to him, and where would all this lead? Was he on his way out of this company? If Mike had been referred to me as a therapist, with this type of dread, I might have looked for the symptoms of anxiety or depression toward a DSM-IV diagnosis. As a coach, however, I assumed no pathology. If clinical symptoms arose I would refer him for therapy.

Mike was the chief financial officer (CFO) of a growing robotics company. He had 6 other managers reporting to him and was responsible for two departments of about 28 employees as well as a large budget and financial information for the company's U.S. operations. It was a stressful job at times although a great company to work for, and he seemed happy to be part of the team. His previous jobs had ended either because of mergers or because he was unhappy in the job. He had been referred to coaching by the company CEO and the company was paying the bill. This is often the case in executive coaching and sets up a potentially sticky triangle with the company and the coachee. Technically, the company was the client because they were paying the bill, but Mike was the client being coached. I always negotiate with the company up front while explaining that the details of the coaching conversations will be confidential and clarifying what kind of reporting the company needs and what outcomes they are expecting. Otherwise details are kept between my coachee and me.

Fueling Mike's wariness about coaching was his own employment history. He had recently moved to his current company from a similar high-level position in another company, and before that yet another company had terminated him coldly' a casualty of a messy merger. Then there was the position that just plain didn't work out, in another organization. Mike had been scorched. And now he was skeptical. Did this company really want him to improve his managerial skills, or was this all a big ruse to dismiss him later? The questions kept coming with no real answers.

A corporate trainer originally hired by Mike's high-tech company to work with their management team referred Mike to me. She was doing some organizational consulting and team building with the management team. During the course of this training, it was soon obvious that all the training in the world would not benefit a team whose manager not only had an old school mind-set, but also old school management skills. Mike was effectively preventing the training from taking hold and yielding positive results' he was a micromanager, more of a 'boss' than a leader. Quite literally, the buck stopped with Mike, and so did any growth of his team.

Not wanting to be herded out the door before what he thought was 'due time,' Mike reluctantly agreed to coaching. On the surface he was open to being coached, but still quite wary. My first meeting with Mike was in person. While much of executive coaching is conducted over the telephone, face-to-face meetings are often beneficial, especially in the early stages of coaching, and especially with someone like Mike. It was essential to establish his trust and achieve his buy-in. I explained how I work, and that I believe in the ability of people to discover their own personal brilliance, and lead the most fulfilling life possible. I am a facilitator, one who could help him live the life of his dreams in all areas, not just those defined by his work role.

As a former therapist, what I didn't tell him was that this process might sometimes involve helping to heal wounds and eradicate major emotional blocks. The goal, however, is getting to the place where you can develop and live the life you want to live. My work does not involve just the workplace, though that is often the beginning focal point. It doesn't matter why I begin the coaching process with someone' to improve the client's work, help him or her move up the ladder, become a better manager, or make an important transition' life in general is improved. This is total life coaching, working with the client to create the total life he or she wants to live. Life coaching is the umbrella under which everything else resides, and in fact, I have developed and adopted this practice as a systematic methodology called Total Life Coaching TM.

Creating the Coaching Alliance

This kind of talk wasn't what Mike was expecting. He was prepared for a lecture, some sort of negative appraisal of his management skills and a psychological shakedown, along with a prescription for remedial work. Once Mike understood what I was about, he could understand what these coaching sessions were about. He could understand that his company was not pouring money into him to fire him. I could see Mike's wariness dim, and the life improvement prospect coming into clear and distinct focus. Soon, Mike thought all of this sounded pretty good, and realized that he really did want to be a better manager' and live a better life.

In this initial meeting I encouraged Mike to tell me about his work and home. I asked him a lot of questions, all targeted at the positive influences and experiences in his work and life. I wanted to know his career story, what he liked about his job, what was going well. I peppered him with questions designed to draw out his strengths, which is always my first focus. What is your perfect day? When are you at your best? What parts of your life and work are the easiest, the most joyful? It is only after exhausting all these possibilities that the talk is turned to the challenges. I avoid words like issues, obstacles, or hurdles. Coaching is always about the positive. This does not mean the negatives are ignored; it merely means they can become strengths if addressed properly, and not immediately labeled as weaknesses. When the positives are the framework of all coaching objectives, the transitions become much more powerful. The whole coaching process is focused on creating and becoming who and what one wants to be, and achieving goals for life and work.

In therapy, this process yields what is eventually called the 'presenting complaint or problem.' This 'complaint' then becomes the issue around which therapy sessions are focused, with the underlying thought, in both the therapist's and the patient's mind, that they are working to overcome deficiencies. (Even in solution-focused therapy, which is less pathologically driven, it is assumed that a problem warrants a solution.) In coaching, however, complaints or desires become the 'presenting objectives.' This term is less pathological, and weaknesses then become targeted strengths. Instead of the paradigm of pathology, coaching presents the paradigm of possibility. It is here that I often see the client's proverbial light bulb not just flicker, but surge to life. A huge step has already been taken, perhaps the biggest of all.

I needed to obtain some basic information about Mike in order to work most effectively with him. I had developed an intake packet with instructions for the client to provide such things as basic contact information, their primary life goals, and just what they would like to accomplish as their first short-term projects. I encouraged Mike to provide me information about what makes him happy, what his long-term goals might be, what his unmet dreams were, and perhaps about some exciting ideas and goals that he had let go of in the past. I asked for his complete life narrative, a continuum of sorts, told in the way that worked best for him. He could write a novel about Mike, or just provide me with highlights and bullet points. It was up to him.

After giving Mike an opportunity to complete the intake packet, we met again to discuss his responses. Mike's light bulb was indeed on. I was fortunate to have a client who was very self-aware, and now not only willing, but also fired up and excited about using coaching to better himself' in every possible way. The angst and the wariness were gone, replaced by eager anticipation for personal achievement.

Occasionally, however, a manager who is referred to an outside executive coach for 'remedial' work will not have this kind of positive attitude about the process ahead. Mike started out wary, but was soon sold on coaching and worked hard to make it a positive experience for him. Some come to coaching grumbling and complaining, reminding me of the adolescents coming out of probation who were often referred to me in my therapy practice. They flat-out didn't want to be there, and made sure I knew it. For these people, the approach is a little different and sometimes a little more challenging, but usually even those with the boulder-on-the-shoulder syndrome come around. Interview questions may take a different tack. I may have to acknowledge that they are there because someone said they had to be there. But what do you want to be here for? If you were here of your own accord, what would you want to do? These conversations are meant to establish rapport with the client, to convince him that this just might be a good experience, not a forced and fruitless waste of time. Coaching is not like being sent to the principal's office, or to the therapist's office after probation. It is an opportunity, and the coach must quickly establish that this is a good thing. Coaching is always focused on what can be, even if it takes different directions and has different outcomes than first thought.

The Power of Inquiry

During our second meeting, Mike and I progressed a little deeper. As coach, I guided our discussion with questions that were evocative and powerful. I needed to know Mike the executive and Mike the person. I was not conducting analysis or looking for reasons for certain behaviors. Together we were building the foundation upon which Mike's coaching would be built in order for him to achieve his very best. I asked powerful questions like:

What do you want?

What big dream have you put aside?

If you went to work tomorrow and everything was as you would like it to be, what would be different?

What would be your ideal work environment?

How could you teach your supervisor how to better manage you?

Coaching does not seek to understand problems, overcome a past, or heal unresolved issues, though such understanding can very likely be a side product as the sessions progress. The successful coach does not view the client as a therapy patient. One of the joys of coaching is the truly egalitarian partnership with the client. There is no hierarchical structure. Although therapists might try to create a feeling of partnership with their clients, there is an invisible and contextual hierarchy that is difficult to overcome. Similarly, patients do not generally consider medical doctor a partner. There is a built-in assumption of expert knowledge and patients naturally place them on a pedestal. If a coach slips into the role of consultant or therapist and starts giving advice or solutions, he or she is no longer a partner. Suggestions and ideas may be part of brainstorming or possibility thinking with your client, but advice should be avoided. Coaching in its most ideal state is one of being curious and evocative with clients, in order to bring out their brilliance, or to tap into possibilities that are created and posited because of the nature of the coaching relationship. Therapists trained in solution-focused techniques experience a relationship closer to coaching, but in a search for solutions, you assume problems that need solving.

I feel privileged to be able to cocreate with my clients, and help elicit their best skills for their job, and overall greatness for human being and doing. This might sound a bit lofty, but it is a powerful concept, vital to the coaching process. My singular stated goal may be to improve this person's effectiveness in their workplace, but the whole person will benefit. That is the pure nature of coaching.

Together, Mike and I had overcome that age-old stigma that plagues men in high-level positions. He saw that I was genuinely interested in bringing out his best and that he really had nothing 'wrong' with himself. He really liked that I was willing to listen to him without judgment and help him make the changes that he could, and live with the situations that he could not change. Executive coaching is a positive step, an employee perk in Mike's case, with both corporate and personal objectives' not a sign of weakness or failure. Now we could get on with the business of coaching.

I had a brief but specific understanding of what was needed, and what was expected, as the outcome of my coaching with Mike. As I mentioned earlier, I had an agreement with a trainer who held the original contract with Mike's organization. This was a little unusual, since in most executive coaching arrangements the coach has a direct contract with either the sponsoring corporation or the individual being coached. The ideal is to contract directly with a corporation to coach a number of executives, not just one individual. In this case, however, I was what might be considered a third-party consultant, hired specifically to meet the needs of an individual leader' as they pertained to the corporate initiative.

The use of the word consultant here, however, is misleading, and really does not typify the work of a coach. There may be a contract for specific work, and it may be predicated by the results desired by the corporation, or the individual employee, but let's make this clear: A coach is not a consultant. A consultant stands back, evaluates a situation, and then explains the problem and how to fix it. A coach stands with the client, helps the client identify the challenges, and then works with the client to turn challenges into celebrated and shared victories

Working With he Company and For the Client

Although Mike's company was paying the bill for my services, Mike understood that everything we did together was absolutely and always confidential. A company has the right to updates and progress reports about certain improvements, but the details of coaching sessions are never shared. Such progress might include improved scores on a management strengths survey or a 360-degree assessment completed by the coach or by an internal human resources consultant. Reports might also include self-reports of improvement by Mike in the specific behaviors or skill areas that were identified by his manager.

A contract may specify expected outcomes, internal measurements, quarterly reviews and evaluation summaries, but it should also always plainly detail the necessity for total coach /client confidentiality. Knowing this helped Mike share with me much more openly and honestly, without fear of any corporate repercussions. On occasion, executive coaching contracts and areas of responsibility and confidentiality can become slightly sticky, especially if the organization is paying the bill. These are best spelled out up front in plain language so all parties understand the conditions. The coach can never violate client trust. This is perhaps the only area where therapy and coaching stand on common ground.

The contract term for Mike's work, which is considered a minimum in the coaching world, was for six months of sessions. The company wanted Mike to improve and to meet their corporate expectations. The company and I determined and agreed together that six months was the minimum amount of time to enable this to happen. They weren't looking for a complete overhaul, just for hidden strengths to surface. Initially, this meant one, one-hour coaching session every week'very standard, very traditional. Later, based on Mike's need for flexibility'he traveled frequently'we changed this to three appointments per month, with the agreement that some sessions could go longer than planned, if needed'and he could e-mail or fax me for 'spot coaching' as needed or desired between sessions.

In all coaching agreements and schedules, flexibility is a must in today's fast-paced, quickly changing world. However, this should never'and never did in Mike's case'interfere with the regularity of contact. The coach must be as available as possible. A great deal of the energy of coaching goes on between scheduled calls, as clients process and incorporate information and innovations. I always made it a habit to respond to Mike with 24 hours, maximum. However, the coach also has a life, and must remember to model boundaries as well. So much of what I did as a therapist was often of an emergency nature that a personal life was often compromised As a coach, however, you are another professional with boundaries that are set, modeled, and appreciated by your clients'another similarity with therapy or counseling.

Over the course of the next few months, my work with Mike helped him to identify specific skills he felt needed improvement, such as communication with his team, appearing less aloof to his employees and colleagues, and more delegating while granting authority (less micromanaging). He had a tendency to do it all and to do it his way. He had to learn to delegate and grant the authority with the responsibility. This is an important distinction. Mike identified those areas for himself ' I did not do it for him. And having done so, he was wholeheartedly pouring himself into his betterment. I recommended that Mike read a book titled Jump Start Your Career, by Lois Frankel. This is a wonderful resource, which identifies the eight most common reasons for career derailment executives experience in their professional lives. Mike was able to see that some of these applied to him. Further, he was actually comforted that there were others like him, experiencing the same difficulties. After the initial reading assignment of the first chapter, I asked Mike to rate himself. His was now developing a keen sense of self-awareness, and his responses provided discussion material for the next several weeks. He had highlighted three of those eight areas, and these became the focus of our coaching for the next few months.

A coach provides the tools for self-awareness and must have a well-stocked arsenal of resources to recommend to the client. I don't have all the answers - no coach does. But I have access to many ways to arrive at the answers, resources that ultimately benefit my clients. These resources might be tools and assessments from the Center for Creative Leadership or other leadership programs I have access to, as well as time, management tools, delegation skills, and skills to develop what Daniel Goleman has called emotional intelligence (Working With Emotional Intelligence, 1998). As we worked our way through some of those resources, Mike excitedly pinpointed several areas he wanted to work on: possibility thinking, brainstorming alternatives, and innovative methods. He recognized himself as an executive in a high-level management position, but one who also happened to be an introvert, with a long-standing negative mind-set. Through coaching Mike learned that he could still be a powerful leader, and that he had powerful things to say, but he needed to give those things powerful thought first. He also learned that he had some powerful listening to do as well.

In our early conversations, Mike tended to defend some of his original management behavior with classic executive excuses. For example, as an old school manager, he often had the habit of running his department from behind a closed door. After all, he was a busy man; he had lots to do. He couldn't tolerate all those interruptions. I validated his behavior, and his excuses, before suggesting alternatives. Eventually Mike learned that he could get his work done and still maintain an open door. He communicated to his team that at certain times the door was closed on purpose, but when the door was open, he was available to them. He informed them ' by telling the truth nicely ' that although the door was open, he was still working, and they needed to respect that by asking about his availability, not assuming it.

Because of the open and honest nature of our coaching arrangement, Mike and I even discussed the possibility of whether he should stay at this company, or move on. His current employer, however, was extremely supportive, willing to work on lateral moves, skill development, or whatever would benefit both Mike and the company. While this kind of support is not typical, it is becoming more common. In today's corporate marketplace, training and retraining are expensive. Employee retention is the key to a healthy bottom line. When a coach can be brought in to facilitate this kind of mutual growth and benefit, the employer and employee both win. It is a win-win situation that the employer sees as a potentially trustworthy return on investment.

Sometimes a need for skill development can provide a challenge to the coach. The client may have a deficit in areas such as communication, delivering presentations, public speaking, or organization. The coach must decide if he or she has the required expertise in those fields. For this reason, an excellent network or master team of professionals with various areas of expertise must be maintained. That's how I came to be Mike's coach. I was in the original trainer's network. Someone else would have been called if Mike had stage fright ' in other words, if he needed specific skill-training by another specifically experienced professional.

Coaching the Whole Person

We continued working on specific goals within the framework of Mike's position, but then our focus shifted slightly to illuminate other areas in his life that were causing him stress. Mike was the type of client who might have found himself in a therapist's office, if he was willing to overcome the stigma of 'therapy.' Here, in a now comfortable coaching partnership, and after experiencing a number of 'successes' through our sessions together, Mike was able to take an honest look at other areas of his life that might benefit from his honest evaluation. It soon became obvious to both of us that Mike was dealing with one of the most typical executive problems plaguing today's leader: work-life balance.

Mike's workload had increased dramatically, causing strain at work and at home. He was in the middle of a huge merger, completely involved in his role. He was working too many hours at the office, and when he went home, the work went with him. For the most part, his wife and his children were supportive, but his wife wasn't willing for Mike to be married to the company. We took a long look at this and even had some joint phone sessions with his wife, where I facilitated them to have the conversations they needed to have together. This process should not be confused with relationship coaching or counseling. This wasn't marriage counseling or therapy. I was not functioning as a therapist or counselor. I was a coach working with his client to ensure success in all areas of his life. The difference here, between marital therapy and relationship coaching can sometimes be a fine line. Relationship coaching is a contextual paradigm where the couple does not have serious relationship problems that need intensive work, but can benefit from some mutual communication about desires, dreams, and visions for how they would like their relationship to be even better. Coaching is for the couples we often hoped would see us as therapists to get tune ups for their relationship and have an objective listener who can assess what's stopping their relationship from being the most loving and satisfying possible. And coaching is very effective and practical for busy couples that may not take the time for regular office visits. If I ever feel that more intensive work is needed, I, as the coach, can recommend marital counseling to the couple and make it part of my coaching life plan.

The result of this particular area of discussion with Mike had an unexpected result. When I encouraged Mike to have a 'courageous conversation' with his boss and explain the undue stress he often experienced, the company realized that Mike was indeed overworked. They had not known the extent of his workload, because he had not bothered to tell them. All this time he had been frantically scrambling to keep up, thinking that was expected of him. He was overassuming the demands of his work, which is another executive frailty. Coaching opened doors to alternatives. When he was able to clearly delineate his time and expectations, the company actually hired an additional contract employee to assist during this difficult time of the merger. I was able to validate Mike's needs, both to him and to his company. All this time Mike thought he was in trouble.

Mike was a classic case, typical of those who might be referred for executive coaching, even if self-referred. These high-level leaders tend to be pulled in many different directions, and it is almost guaranteed that their work-life balance is seriously out of alignment. Their management and communication skills are pinched, and their status with their teams is precarious at best. One of the greatest assets of coaching is that the client can learn to become a coach with his or her team. Command and control leadership does not work anymore, but the sincere encouragement of a leader as coach does. During the coaching process, Mike was able to observe how I worked, and the impact on his work and life. He was able to see that we did it together, that he achieved a great deal more than he could have alone, and that he could do the same with his team. Mike learned that he could be a good listener, that he could ask powerful questions, that he could encourage rather than command others, and that he could be innovative.

Acceptability of Coaching to Male Executives

It was not the intent of this article to single out men in high-level positions who are skeptical of executive coaching, but it is a very real condition that needs to be considered. Some of these men may very well benefit from seeing a therapist, but they may not really need therapy. They respond to and need a life coaching partner, and that is the joy in my work. I have found that coaching relationships are more joyful, less stressful than those in the therapy arena. As a therapist I was always very motivational and coach-like, never considering myself traditional or typical. However, the sign on the door set the tone. I was the doctor to my patients. The context of the counseling or therapy relationship, whether real or perceived, was usually hierarchical from the beginning. We were never partners for success, but always doctor and patient.

Most often people come into therapy with some level of perceived dysfunction, and that is always the looming issue. The steps to improvement are small, measured, and often grinding and tedious'maybe even painful. Steps taken during a coaching process are bigger, wider, more productive and more fulfilling'for both the client and the coach. Coaching is a creative partnership. It is a give-and-take relationship to explore new ground, to go where no therapist has gone before! The old questions that had to be delicately worded because they stepped on already wounded toes are now formed and received as the doorway to new horizons. The coach guides the agenda, but the client sees the vista and widens the door already opened.

After the agreed-upon term of six months, both the company and Mike evaluated the results of our coaching. I had joint meetings with Mike and his supervisor at the end of three months and again after six months. They were both pleased with the noticeable progress and Mike was able to identify specific areas of focus for the next several months. It was jointly determined by them to continue this contract to eleven months. Mike discovered tremendous skills he wasn't even aware of. He made discoveries he would never have dreamed of. He originally did not have any goals to 'go to the top' or even any higher than where he was, but Mike was promoted, and the company saw excellent results. Not only was Mike doing his job better, he was also living his life better. Our coaching relationship lasted for several more months beyond the extended contract on an informal, irregular basis. Mike is happy. The company is happy.

And I am happy. It is a thrilling experience to enable someone to become, as the army puts it, 'all that they can be.' As a coach, I am privileged to witness greater life achievement in one client than I ever hoped for in a dozen therapy patients. Personally, I feel more valued. I am delighted when I get e-mails and voice mails from clients between sessions. I hear about exciting changes, breakthroughs, and discoveries. I truly care for the people I coach, and I share the joy of their victories and achievements.

I will freely admit that being an experienced therapist has made me a better coach, but I also had the natural personality for a good coach to begin with. My years as a therapist merely enhanced my natural coaching instincts. I also know well that coaching is a profession that demands a few gray hairs well earned in the game of life. Of course, twenty-year-olds, with the right set of skills and attitude, could coach, but they would have to coach other twenty-somethings! A good coach needs a lot of SLE ' significant life experience.

Today, my background as a psychologist has married my inborn desire to coach, and I am doing what I love ' enabling discovery instead of treating dysfunction. Discovery wins every time.

Practical Advice

Advice for New Executive Coaches

  1. Executive coaching is where the whole movement began. It has been around in the corporate world for a long time, but today professionally trained coaches have given newfound popularity to this growing executive niche.
  2. Executive coaching can be the most lucrative, but also the most demanding of coaching. Executives are 'on the go' and need more flexibility in the coaching sessions and often want and need in-person time coupled with phone sessions
  3. All coaching is life coaching. Be willing to go beyond just work performance issues. Coach the whole person behind the job title.

Advice for New Therapists Transitioning to Coaching

  1. Get formal coach training and then supplement this with some specific training in executive and corporate training. It is important to have a general coach training as the operating system before specializing in executive coaching.
  2. Hire an executive coach as your mentor.
  3. Read lots of magazines like Fortune, Fast Company, or Business Week.

What I Know Now

When I started executive coaching back in 1990, I was trying too hard to be an expert or more like a consultant and problem solver. Today, I realize that my job as coach is to bring out the best in my client, and help them learn how to get what they want and where they want by using the coaching conversations to speed up the process.

Fees for My Coaching Services

I charge $250 per hour and usually make it a monthly retainer of $500 for two hours of coaching. We usually have three to four phone calls a month or maybe two one-hour calls. If in-person coaching is needed that is billed separately unless it is part of a total package contract. In-person coaching is often figured at the same hourly rate or as part of a daily rate of $2000 per day, which takes into account travel and preparation. I require retainers paid in advance and a six-month minimum contract. If I have to travel, expenses are also billed. Sometimes payment can be after billing the company as long as a contract is in place.

A Brief Biography

I am a clinical psychologist, who has always functioned more like a coach than a

traditional therapist. I began executive coaching in 1990 as a supplement to my clinical practice and found it professionally stimulating and financially rewarding. In 1996, after some formal coach training, I closed my psychology practice completely and transitioned into full time coaching by telephone with executives, professionals, and entrepreneurs. The joyfulness of coaching people to 'design a life, not just get over a past' moved me into full time coaching in 1996 after having a psychotherapy practice for 16 years.

My coaching business grew steadily until 1998, with international coaching clients, when I decided to train other therapists to transition into the growing profession of life coaching (of which executive coaching is one niche). In 1998, I founded Therapist U (now called the Institute for Life Coach Training) to train mental health professionals in the art and science of coaching. I believe that therapists/counselors can become the very best coaches with some specific skill training, and marketing and business development. I have trained hundreds of therapists in the USA, Canada, and Europe.

I am a Master Certified Coach, as granted by the International Coach Federation and a charter member of the ICF. Most recently, I have had the privilege to work and train with Dave Ellis, author of Falling Awake: Creating the Life of Your Dreams and several other books including Becoming a Master Student, which has sold over 3 million copies. Dave Ellis is a masterful coach, mentor, and friend and is a powerful figure in modeling the principles of coaching as a way to evoke one's greatness and design one's life in accordance with values, passion, and purpose. In all my professional endeavors, I attempt to bring a whole-person approach to my work and present myself with integrity, a deep sense of caring, and a lightness of being. My mission is to profoundly impact the lives of those I coach and mentor so they may profoundly impact the lives of others.

Personal Coaches I have worked with:

In learning this profession in the past few years, I have been sure to hire the best as I embarked upon full time coaching. My coaches have been Cheryl Richardson, Judy Feld, Jay Perry, John Seiffer, Phil Humbert, Lynn Grodzki, Dave Ellis, and Chuck Proudfit. In addition I have had informal relationships with certain coaches on special issues.


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